Tuesday, March 28, 2017

Marth Uthrow Combo Table for Falcon


%
Toward DI
No DI
Away DI
0-7
(your choice of throw)
(your choice of throw)
(your choice of throw)
8-26
(Fthrow tech chase)
(Fthrow tech chase)
(Fthrow tech chase)
27-35
Turn Utilt
Regrab
Utilt
36-44
Regrab
Side-B string (toward DI escapes)
Utilt
45-49
Fair or Regrab
Turn utilt (away DI escapes)
Fair
50-53
Fair or Regrab
Mixup between:
Turn utilt and
Fsmash to your back side
Fair
54-63
Fair or Regrab
Mixup between:
Turn utilt and
Fsmash to your back side
Mixup between:
Fair and Fsmash
64-67
Mixup between:
Fair and Fsmash
Mixup between:
Fsmash to your back side and
walk back, Fsmash to the other side

OR

Uair->Fsmash/Fair mixup
Mixup between:
Fair and Fsmash
68-76
Mixup between:
Fair and
(Pivot) Fsmash
Uair->Uair/Fair->...

OR

Mixup between:
FH reverse (tipper) Fair
or soft Bair and
(Pivot) Fsmash to back side
Mixup between:
Fair and
(Pivot) Fsmash
77-85
Mixup between:
Fair and Uair
Uair->Uair/Fair

OR

Mixup between:
FH reverse Fair or FH soft Bair and
Pivot Fsmash to back side
Mixup between:
Fair and Uair
86-99
Mixup between:
Fair and Uair
FH Uair->Uair OR Nair OR soft Bair
Mixup between:
Fair and Uair
100-113
-
FH Uair OR tipper Bair or soft Bair
-
114-140
-
FH DJ Uair or tipper Bair
-


This chart is largely a reduction of Kadano's table to a workable strategy.  Now I know many Marth players like to ban FD, so this combo table sometimes won't be useful when platforms get in the way.  However, like Fox/Falco table, it's a solid base that you can build off of with further research or intuition.  The more of the combo tree that you know, the less you have to deviate from the path you know to venture into the unknown.

The last tables I made had nice, easy-to-remember percent ranges that were chosen for ease of execution without losing much of any effectiveness, avoiding mixups and favoring guaranteed followups.  Against Falcon, we don't have that luxury.  Options are limited and have tight timings, try to get the higher port for that extra frame of leniency (this was tested with P1).

Here's Kadano's table from Smashboards:


https://smashboards.com/threads/kadanos-perfect-marth-class-advanced-frame-data-application.337035/page-17#post-16635855 <-key and more info

Unlike Kadano's table, I identify the best two-choice mixup if there is one, and align and combine rows when possible.  Combos on Falcon are all about DI mixups.  Fsmash won't do much if it is survival DI'd, and Fair will rarely continue the combo if Falcon DIs away, but if he guesses wrong, he will just die to Fsmash at hilariously low percents or get Ken combo'd.  Utilts, as usual, are parts of a mixup at mid percents, as there is always a direction that will cause them to escape.  Utilts and fairs at lower percents may lead to a tech chase instead of another guaranteed followup, but I favor listing followups that lead another followup, which is usually another mixup or an edgeguard.

Explanation


Let's get into the reasoning behind each set of choices in my table rows:

0-7%


Here, no throw leads to a great followup.  Fthrow will not knockdown, though it might if it is fresh at 7% (if three of your last 10 moves were Fthrows, then it is too stale).  It leaves him standing and he can always jab you out of any followup or roll away. Pummeling once may help them get to a high enough percent for the knockdown, but they may mash out if your timing isn't perfect and they react quickly and mash well.  Dthrow always knocks down, but tech away is unreachable, and Bthrow is even worse, with even tech in place unpunishable.  Uthrowing and catching their double jump seems like the best option, but even that is liability.  If Falcon wiggles out of tumble, he lands in front of you at frame advantage.  Even if the Falcon player doesn't know this, catching Falcon's jump here doesn't lead to much, even with the lowest-to-ground uair or strongest utilt, since he's so heavy and low % that it grants too little hitstun, though it is damage and it should be possible to dash dance against any retaliation.  You can also bait the response after Fthrow, so the choice is yours.  If their tech away is cut short by the edge of the stage, then Dthrow is the best choice here.

8-26% 


Kadano lists followups for Uthrow at 22-26, but every option has an escape DI, so it's better to do a guaranteed Fthrow tech chase unless you think the gimmick option will be more successful. The Utilt and Side-Bs at 22-26 have very tight timings.  Utilt will itself only lead to a tech chase if DI'd toward.  Side-B on away DI can be escaped by DIing away, so you have a mixup there, but you have no such mixup for no-DI or toward DI on the Uthrow.  It's better to master the tech chase, there you will at least have a mixup.  The reaction tech chase is done by walking or WDing toward where you Fthrow them and grabbing them if they tech in place, jabbing them or waiting and reacting if they don't tech, and dash JC grabbing them if they side tech.

27-35%


I was surprised to see that Falcon can be chaingrabbed at certain percents.  This segment is simple but the utilts and grabs have tight timings.  Turn utilt can be done without waiting to turn around first by putting the stick between the diagonal and up and pressing A.  The utilts may grant you another utilt, and even if they DI the utilts well, you will still be able to tech chase them.  If the utilt puts them right on top of you, you should grab them.  Body-hit uptilts always end the combo.

36-44%


Here is a potential point of escape for you dirty Falcon player readers.  Doing no-DI on the Uthrow and then DIing toward is safe against every followup.  I list "Side-B string" because if Falcon doesn't DI toward, the string connects pretty well, with potential for a 4th hit, though you likely will only net a tech chase.  For the 3rd and 4th hits, up hits are best, as the other hits don't lead to anything.  Instead of Side-B, you may be able to regrab them if you have the higher port, due to the extra frame that they are in stun.  Utilt does not work because there's way to get anything but a body hit.  The regrab on toward DI is very difficult, requiring you to backdash and JC grab after you've finished turning around at a very tight timing.

45-49%


No-DI is also problematic here.  Turn utilt, which nets a good utilt, is possible, but they are too low for a tipper Fsmash to complete the DI mixup that's possible in the next segment.  If Falcon DIs away from Marth after doing no-DI on the Uthrow, Falcon escapes.  By "away DI escapes" I mean DIing away from Marth's original facing direction, ending up behind Marth after the turn utilt. You can continue to regrab toward DI, but I prefer to Fair them.  Fair won't necessarily lead to anything but a tech chase, but even if they DI away you can WL to where they land and reaction tech chase from there.

50-53%


This is where you start getting great options on any Uthrow DI again.  On no DI, Fsmashing in the opposite direction that you're facing will result in a "reverse Fsmash," sending them in the opposite direction you'd expect, so they'll be sent in the direction that you were originally facing.  If they DI away, Falcon has a weak enough recovery that an edgeguard will end the stock.  To beat survival DI, you turn utilt.  You can also do a normal utilt at later percents, but turn utilt is better because it saves you from having to turn around for the followup.  Either way, utilt sends Falcon in a similar direction as the appropriate survival DI for Fsmash, so if he somehow expects the Fsmash, that DI won't affect the utilt base trajectory.  This builds a solid 50/50 on whether or not Falcon will survival DI the tricky Fsmash or not, though full toward will allow an escape on the utilt and possibly make the Fsmash a bit more survivable.

If the utilt lands, this is a great place to follow with an Uair.  Since this Uair can be done lower to the ground than normal, and it puts Falcon at threat of a tipper Fsmash.  If that Uair isn't DI'd away, a second Uair that puts Falcon at threat of a tipper Fsmash can be added.  This situation is very similar to the utilt on no-DI against Fox/Falco at the 50-55%/56-59% ranges.  Fsmashes are still weak to survival DI, especially due to Falcon's weight, so always think about replacing that Fsmash with a Fair if it looks predictable.

You continue to get Fair -> tech chase on side-DI, with regrab as an option on toward DI.

54-63%


This segment is the same as the previous except that this is where you can start tipper Fsmashing away-DI, but not toward DI.  The Utilt combo followup changes a bit as well.  On the later half of this range, you stop being able to connect Fsmash out of Uairs, but you may be able to get them off of Fairs that are not DI'd away.  To beat DI away without Fsmash, Uairs are your best option, as they will carry them across the stage while keeping them in reach for another Fair/Uair mixup or a Dair ender (I should mention here that you cannot do Dairs right out of grabs against Falcon unlike against Fox and Falco, except maybe at small range of % and slight away DI).

64-67%


At this range you get access to some of your strongest mixups.  Utilts require you guess one more time in the combo to get the kill than other options, at least.  On no-DI, you may choose to only guess once by ambiguously mixing up what side you are going to Fsmash Falcon.  If you Fsmash to your back, they'll get sent in that direction (usually). To send them in front of you, you must walk a tiny distance backward.  This is the only place where you can Uthrow->Uair->Fsmash in the style of Fox/Falco combos, due to Falcon's weight, so alternatively you can choose to do that.

DIing away is also very dangerous for Falcon, as you have access to tipper Fsmash that Falcon must survival DI or die.  Fair begins to juggle a bit better here, too, to beat survival DI, though it won't hit hard enough yet to put them at threat of an Fsmash as a followup.

68-76%


This is where you get your strongest mixup on side-DI, while your mixup on no-DI gets... creative. The side DI mixup involves your max % Fsmashes (requiring pivots at the high end) for this DI as well as your most threatening SH Fair.  

Against no-DI, you may choose start a string of Fair/Uair mixups starting with an Uair or you may try for an Fsmash, whose survival DI seems to be best covered by a FH soft aerial mixup, similar to what have against Fox at certain ranges.  It's difficult to describe how this aerial should be landed.  You may choose to do a tightly timed dash forward FH back, or you can also SH forward and quickly DJ back up, as you won't need the DJ.  A third option I found recently is to FH in place and hit a reverse tipper Fair which will send them up and behind you, which I think is the ideal choice.  After one of these aerials hits, you may choose to hit with any aerial in an attempt to continue.  The situation will be quite inconsistent and depending on DI, but it is a good option to force Falcon behind your original grab position.

In Fsmash/FH aerial mixup, you send them behind you either way, so if you want to have a chance send them in the other direction for stage position reasons, then go with the Uair, fading to follow DI in such a way that you get access to a Fair/Uair mixup.

77-85%


This range is similar to the previous one except you lose access to Fsmash on side DI but get your max % Pivot Fsmashes on no-DI.  It also becomes harder to land the reverse tipper fair but easier to land reverse FH aerials with momentum.  If you choose Uair here, the resulting juggle will be shorter due to the higher percent.  Side DI forces a Fair/Uair juggle.

86-99%


Marks the end of the line for followups for Side-DI, which aren't very good.  No threatening mixup for no-DI, either.  Just pick an aerial.  You can hope they DI in with a soft one, but they're pretty safe to just DI away.  The rest of the segments don't need any explanation.

Slight DI



Here was my table that tried to reconcile slight DI followup breakpoints with the rows of the other chart.  It breaks things in a few more columns.  The slight DI used was the DI that the CPU does in Training mode when you set it to attack, but there are many different possible slight DIs.  Slight DI makes things easier for you at low percents, but messes up your Fsmashes big time at mid percents, though good mixups remain.  You may be forced to do more soft fairs into tech chases.  Resist the temptation to do low percentage uairs when you don't have to, as they don't continue combos well.  A key option that slight DI adds is a mixup on whether you will turn around when you utilt; this occurs at 50-56 with this particular slight DI as a replacement your reverse Fsmash/utilt mixup for no-DI.

To Conclude


Combos on Falcon require a good amount of mixups if Fsmash isn't available, but you don't always need to combo to dair against him.  Even "failed" juggles may be converted to edgeguards.  Finishing with a soft fair is fine in lot of cases.  

The complexity that Slight DI adds and the complexity of the table even without it is a good argument for just doing the throw combos by feel, but there's still plenty of important breakpoints in followups that are good to have memorized.  Getting a feel for how to react to the situation while having two great mixup options at your disposal is required to maximize your punishes consistently, either way, as the table only goes as far as one or two followups after the throw.  At least having read this post, you don't have to "feel" your way too far in the dark.

I don't think any flowchart is necessary, as it'd be too complicated and nothing flows together as much as it branches out, having fewer regrab situations than against Fox or Falco.

A lot of this won't be useful because Marth players don't think FD is a good stage to play on against Falcon, but I find Dreamland more frustrating due to the high platforms that don't offer the advantage of Fsmash tipper opportunites, and Falcons often take me to Stadium, while we usually strike to BF if I don't strike toward FD or counterpick it myself.  Seems like mastery of these combos would make FD quite viable.

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